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PANORAMA "THE ACCUSED" RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION:
BBC-1 DATE: 17:06:01
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FERGAL KEANE: On a Autumn morning in 1982 an Israeli soldier
walked into a refugee camp and was confronted with a scene of desolation.
EMMANUEL ROSEN Journalist for Israeli Defence Force, 1982 It was very quiet,
no one screamed, no one yelled inside the camp. I remember the smell.
I remember the picture that people were lying one on another and some of them
were already dead, some of them were still breathing. KEANE: At
least 800 civilians were massacred after Israel's Minister of Defence, Ariel
Sharon, allowed Lebanese Phalangist militiamen into the camps of Sabra and
Shatila. Ariel Sharon speaking in 1985 Not one of us, no one of our
soldiers, no one of our commanders, not myself, no one of our political
leaders in Israel was involved in that tragic event. KEANE: When
Ariel Sharon says, and other senior Israeli officers, that they couldn't
possibly have predicted what might have happened... MORRIS DRAPER US
Special Envoy to the Middle East, 1982 Complete and utter nonsense.
KEANE: Nobody has ever been prosecuted for the killings or for failing
in their responsibilities to the murdered civilians. This is the story
of those who stand accused. In June 1982 Israel's army stormed across an
international border and invaded Lebanon. The Israelis said they wanted
to protect their borders from Palestinian guerrilla attack and Ariel Sharon's
army was soon laying siege to the capital Beirut with its Palestinian camps.
MOUNAIR AHMED It was very scary because you always hear the close bombs by and
you always hear someone just died or someone just got injured. KEANE:
An estimated 300 people were killed in a single day's bombing.
Dr RANAAN GISSEN Israeli Prime Minister's
spokesman The threat emanating from Lebanon as far as the terrorism that was
launched by the PLO was such that if we didn't go to that war, the whole
northern part of Israel would have been depopulated. KEANE: After
two months of war the PLO gave in to the Israeli demand that they leave
Lebanon. For the civilians in Sabra and Shatila it meant peace.
Children swam in the craters left by bombs. Tens of thousands of people
were crammed into the ghettos of Sabra and Shatila. For families like
the Ahmeds peace gave them a chance to start work on reconstruction.
NABIL AHMED Many of the homes that we lived in had no doors, no windows.
The ceiling half messed up is shaky. No water, no electricity. It
was very, very difficult. KEANE: An estimated 14,000 PLO and
Syrian fighters were evacuated from Beirut. With the fighters forced
out, many left behind in the camps felt afraid. SUAD SURUR It was
natural to feel afraid after the Palestinian resistance had left, there was an
inevitable feeling of fear as if we sensed that something even more terrible
was going to happen, even though we had no idea what it was going to be.
KEANE: The people left behind in the camps had one enemy to fear
above all others. They were a Lebanese Christian militia who had been at
war with the PLO for seven years - the Phalange. NABIL AHMED: The
impression of Phalange was like they're basically killers. The minute
they would get hold of a Palestinian they would kill. KEANE: The
Phalange were led by the charismatic and ruthless Bashir Gemayel. He was
Israel's main ally in Lebanon. Israel's Mossad knew from meetings with
him that he wanted to 'eliminate' the Palestinian problem, and now he
was about to become President of Lebanon. Bashir's election worried the
people of the camps but they'd been promised security. It was a deal
brokered by America with the Israeli's and the beleaguered Lebanese
government. MORRIS DRAPER US Special Envoy to the Middle
East, 1982 America said that the women and children and others left behind
would be able to live in peace, as long as they obeyed the law and Lebanese
jurisdiction. It was as simple as that - a very simple document. I
wrote it. KEANE: They needed that document because in Lebanon's
civil war civilians were routinely murdered as witnessed by a British
photographer several years earlier. DON McCULLIN I remember listening
to an old lady protesting to a Phalange and I looked at him and I looked at
her and I thought well what's it mean to him, this old lady, why is he
bothering? Why doesn't he just let her go? And what he did, he
saved himself the trouble and he emptied a magazine into this old lady's chest
and abdomen and she just dropped down sighing. KEANE: On all
sides Lebanon's civil war embraced a culture of murder. McCULLIN:
People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing
crucifixions and were calling themselves Christians. KEANE: But
the people in Sabra and Shatila had been promised they'd be protected from
their enemies, and then everything exploded. BBC Radio News
15th Sept 1982 The fragile peace in Lebanon is threatened by renewed tension
following the disclosure overnight that the President Elect, Mr Bashir Gemayel,
died in yesterday's bomb attack on the headquarters of his..... KEANE:
The Phalangists were distraught and enraged by the assassination. NEWS:
The Phalangist militia that Mr Gemayel once headed and the Israeli forces
are said to be on high alert. KEANE: A Syrian agent would confess
to the killing but many in the camps feared the Palestinians would be blamed.
NABIL AHMED: People were scared, people get worried, and I
remember my mother's words that day in Arabic she said "God protect us
from what's coming". KEANE: Israeli forces were now close by
the camps. There was crossfire. Nabil's mother urged him, as a fit
16 year old, to try and escape. NABIL AHMED: When my mother
agreed with my uncle to let me go and run away, everybody in that shelter... I
went down to the shelter, everybody, including my younger brothers and
sisters, started crying and screaming. They wanted to go with me.
Those moments were the most painful. I'll never forget those moments.
Wednesday / 15TH SEPTEMBER KEANE: Ariel Sharon now decided
to send his army into West Beirut, breaking a promise to the Americans that
they would stay out of that part of the city. Israeli military
intelligence claimed there were 2000 PLO and other Muslim fighters in West
Beirut. But in the event, the battle was small. General YORAM
YAIR Commander, Paratroop Brigade, 1982 There was not fighting. I have
seen enough fighting in my life to tell you this was not similar. It was
relatively very easy, very secure. KEANE: For the Phalange,
convulsed by grief and anger, it was a moment of crisis. The director of
operations toured the front line. FOUAD ABOU NADER Phalange Head of
Operations, 1982 I decided to go and visit every one on the front, every
soldier, every barrack, just to boost the morale and to tell them that even if
Bashir is dead, we can go on, you know.. we have the legacy, we have friends,
we are still very strong you know. KEANE: Ariel Sharon arrived in
Beirut on Wednesday morning insisting there were PLO forces in the camps.
He'd later testify he didn't want his troops fighting and dying in Sabra and
Shatila. And so after conferring with his senior officers, including
Amos Yuron, the Commander for Beirut and the refugee camps, Ariel Sharon
agreed a fateful order. "Only one element, and that is
the Israeli Defence Force, shall command the forces in the area. For the
operation in the camps the Phalangist should be sent in." KEANE:
Ariel Sharon went to see the Phalange at their headquarters to discuss the
Beirut operation. Among the commanders was a close friend of the
murdered Bashir Gemayel, a man called Elie Hobeika. His name will appear
many times in this story. Now, a day after their leader's murder, the
Israelis were asking the Phalange to fight in Palestinian camps. Could
Ariel Sharon have been in any doubt about what would have happened if you sent
the Phalangists into a Palestinian refugee camp, an undefended camp?
MORRIS DRAPER US Special Envoy to the Middle East, 1982 Well you'd have to be
appallingly ignorant. I mean I suppose if you came down from the moon
that day you might not predict it. Dr RANAAN GISSEN Israeli Prime
Minister's Spokesman All the evidence shows, and that was clearly also in the
Kahan Commission report, that first of all we did not know. None of our
officers ever could conceive of that. KEANE: But you should have
expected it surely. These people had been killing since 1975 between
them. They'd suffered massacres at the hands of the Palestinians. What
else did you think they were going to do? GISSEN: But under the
guidance and control of our forces, we never expected that that would happen.
We never thought that these kind of forces which trained with us, which were
supposed to take part in the fighting, would actually go into that area.
And under the guidance of their leader, you know.. conduct a massacre.
Thursday / 16TH SEPTEMBER As Thursday, September 16th dawned the
Israelis had moved into Beirut in force. NABIL AHMED We saw tanks.. we
saw Israeli tanks, we saw soldiers. We did not come close to them, just
from a distance because we would be arrested, taken away. FERGAL KEANE
For the first time in history the Israelis had occupied an Arab capital.
By Thursday morning Israel's chief of staff was able to tell Ariel Sharon the
whole city is in our hands. There is complete quiet now. The camps
are closed. Now that's a crucial moment because at that point Ariel
Sharon and his army became legally responsible for the safety of the civilians
in Beirut, and that included the people of Sabra and Shatila. Under the
long established humanitarian laws which govern the behaviour of an occupying
army in an international armed conflict, political and military commanders are
responsible for protecting civilians from harm. Judge Richard Goldstone
is the man who led the prosecution of suspected war criminals in the UN
tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Judge Goldstone is one
of the leading figures helping to develop war crimes law. He's well
acquainted with the concept of what is called 'command responsibility'.
Judge RICHARD GOLDSTONE Former Chief Prosecutor UN War Crime Tribunals,
1994-96 A military commander and a political leader who was involved in giving
instructions would clearly have an obligation under the law of war, and under
the Geneva Convention, to ensure that innocent civilians were not murdered or
raped or injured in any way. Command responsibility goes fairly far, it
requires obviously knowledge of the danger to innocent civilians if there's
that knowledge then there's an obligation to take reasonable steps to protect
them. KEANE: In Tel Aviv Ariel Sharon and his Chief of Staff met
with American diplomats at the Defence Ministry. The Americans wanted to
know why the Israelis had broken their promise and gone into West Beirut.
The Chief of Staff said it was to prevent a Phalangist frenzy of revenge.
DRAPER: The whole group of maybe twenty of us altogether fell
silent. It was a dramatic moment. KEANE: But the Israelis
also mentioned the possibility of deploying the Phalange in West Beirut.
Morris Draper says the Americans were horrified at the suggestion.
DRAPER: We made it very clear, under no circumstances could the United
States tolerate this. KEANE: Why? DRAPER: Because it
would be a massacre, we knew. Couldn't let those people in.
Reconstruction KEANE: But at around 7 o'clock the Phalange -
about 150 of them - were let in to Sabra and Shatila. It was a small
force. The Phalange knew there was no big PLO army waiting for them.
In groups they went to people's homes. SUAD SURUR There were thirteen
of them. They knocked on the door. My father said "Who is
it?" My younger brothers were sleeping. The men replied they
were Israelis. I whispered to my father that they weren't Israelis.
Summer 1982 KEANE: The Phalange asked the Israelis to fire
flares into the sky to light their way. The Israelis agreed to their
ally's request. NABIL AHMED The sky was completely lighted all night
long and after certain time and at night we could hear noise heavy coming from
the camp. KEANE: Groups of civilians were herded into the
streets, 12 year old Mounair among them. MOUNAIR AHMED They
said the men and the older guys to go to the right and the women and children
go to the left. They kept on telling us "Don't worry, you're going
to be okay, you're going to be okay, nothing going to happen".
KEANE: The Israelis had a forward command post about 200 metres away
which overlooked the camps. There were Phalangists stationed on the roof
with the Israelis. It was around this time, 7 o'clock on Thursday
evening that an Israeli officer stationed on the roof overheard a deeply
troubling conversation. He was standing close to Elie Hobeika, the
Leader of the Phalange operation. A soldier inside the camps came
on the radio. He told Hobeika he was holding 50 women and children.
What should he do with them? Hobeika replied "That's the last time
you're going to ask me a question like that. You know exactly what to
do". There was raucous laughter from the other Phalangists.
The Israeli officer reported this to his superior, General Amos Yuron.
There would be more worrying reports to the Yuron, but beyond warning Elie
Hobeika not to harm civilians the General took no further action that night.
Ariel Sharon was now at a cabinet meeting in Jerusalem. Ministers heard
the Phalange were now in the camps. Deputy Prime Minister David Levy was
deeply troubled. "When I hear that the Phalangists are already
entering a certain neighbourhood and I know what the meaning of revenge is for
them, what kind of slaughter, then no one will believe we went in to create
order there and we will bear the blame." Reconstruction
KEANE: But the operation was not stopped. The Phalange were now
attacking people in their homes. SUAD SURUR: Nobody dared look at
anyone else. Even the little ones wouldn't look at the older ones,
except for my little sister. While she was looking at us, a bullet shot
her in the head. She fell from my mother's arms like a slaughtered bird.
My brother Shardie was looking around and calling out "Father"
calling for his father when he was shot in the head. KEANE: Suad
fell wounded among the bodies of her family. On the streets groups of
terrified civilians were being shot at point blank range. MOUNAIR
AHMED: I was next to my mother. She was hit first and a lot of
people were crying loud and little kids screaming, and I remember my sister
was still alive and they told her give us the ring and this.. which she
did, and they shot her. There were also other things happening was the
woman telling them like they would tell each other tell her take her clothes
off and that, and that, and they were hurting them other ways before they
killed them. KEANE: An American nurse working in a camp hospital
saw civilians fleeing. ELLEN SIEGEL Nurse I became aware that people
were being killed in the camp when people started screaming and then running
to the hospital in large numbers and the people were screaming
"Phalange" and they had their fingers and they were making a gesture
across their throat like somebody was slitting throats. Reconstruction
SUAD: The men returned for a third time. They spoke to me
nicely. "You're still alive" they said. I shook my head
and smiled at them mockingly. They said "We're going to finish you
off right now." I said "As you wish, do as you please."
They shot me in the arm and they hit my head with the butt of a rifle.
One of them shot me, the other one hit me. I lost consciousness.
KEANE: Sixteen year old Suad was also raped. MOUNAIR AHMED:
The hardest memories is hearing my mum praying and hear a shot next to me and
all her blood was dripping on me, and that's the hardest one.
Reconstruction Friday / 17TH SEPTEMBER KEANE:
Friday morning the Israeli Command in Beirut told the Chief of Staff the
Phalange had gone too far. At 9am an Israeli tank commander saw the
bodies of five women and children. That morning the Israelis briefed the
press in Beirut. "Yesterday night we had full control of all the
important keys of the city including the Palestinian camps of Bourj Al-Barajneh,
Sabra and Shatila." KEANE: A Danish cameraman was one of the
few outsiders to briefly capture the Phalangist terror. The women and
children are being loaded onto a truck. They're terrified.
Shooting continues in the camp. The Phalangist warns the cameraman.
It's not known what happened to this group. On Friday afternoon a group
of terrified women had escaped the Phalange and made their way to an Israeli
guard post outside the camps. WOMEN: They shot and
buried four families. GUARD: I swear by God, I didn't see them.
WOMEN: We'll show you where they buried the people they killed.
Come with us to Shatila. GUARD: I can't leave here. WOMEN:
We'll show you the bodies. Isn't it a sin? A nine-month old baby?
KEANE: The women asked the Israelis to seek the release of their
sons and husbands. GUARD: When the Phalangists are
finished with them, they will release them. WOMEN: If they've
been killing women and children how are they going to release the young men?
They shot an old man and an old lady. They shot them in front of us.
KEANE: The people who went up to the Israeli soldier begging for
help, what did you feel when you were watching those images? Judge
RICHARD GOLDSTONE Former Chief Prosecutor UN War Crime Tribunals, 1994-96
Well, you know I had the same feelings I had unfortunately too frequently in
my life and in my own country in South Africa seeing women and children in
those sort of extreme situations. I came across those sorts of images
obviously coming out of the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. More recently in
Kosovo where there was similar ethnic cleansing, and needless to say, in the
horror of the terrible genocide in Rwanda. KEANE: That Friday
morning, concerned about reports of killing, the Israelis surrounding the
camps ordered the Phalange operation halted. But the Israelis allowed
the Phalange to stay in the camps, and the killing continued. An Israeli
officer encountered a group of fleeing civilians on Friday afternoon in West
Beirut. General YORAM YAIR Commander, Paratroop Brigade, 1982 I saw
suddenly about 20 or 30 Palestinian trying to cross this road and they are
very hysterical and we didn't allow them to pass. There was a young
Israeli officer he got his order not to let any Palestinian to cross into the
northern part of Beirut, and they were hysterical. I asked "What
happened, what happened?" They say "They kill us."
I say "Okay, go, pass." KEANE: The colonel reported
this over the radio to his superior, General Yuron. Earlier General
Yuron and the Chief of Staff met the Phalange leadership. Though the Israeli
command in Beirut were now aware of serious questions about the abuse of
civilians they didn't raise the issue with the Phalange. In fact it was
agreed the Phalange could remain in the camps for another 12 hours, and the
Israelis agreed to provide a bulldozer for the demolition of illegal houses.
SUAD SURUR Throughout the night I stared at my dead brother, sister and
father. I was in a terrible state of madness. I even lost my
memory. But what could I do? I'd lost the ability to speak and
couldn't shout out. KEANE: Back in Israel between 8 and 9 Ariel
Sharon was told the Phalangists had harmed the civilian population more than
was expected. They had gone too far. The operation had been
stopped his Chief of Staff told him and the Phalange would be out of the camps
by 5am. Then, at around half past eleven he received another phone call.
RON BEN YISHAI Journalist I found him at home sleeping. He woke
up and I told him "Listen, there are stories about killings and massacres
in the camps. A lot of our officers know about it and tell me about it,
and if they know it, the whole world will know about it. You can still
stop it." I didn't know that the massacre actually started 24 hours
earlier. I thought it started only then and I said to him "Look, we
still have time to stop it. Do something about it." He didn't
react. Saturday / 18TH SEPTEMBER KEANE: An
Israeli inquiry found that having heard the Chief of Staff's assurance, it
wasn't Ariel Sharon's duty to order any additional steps. The Phalange
did not leave when they'd promised. There was another three hours of
killing and burying the evidence before they departed. In the early
hours of Saturday morning, they arrived at Gaza hospital in Sabra. A
panic-stricken Palestinian medical helper begged the foreign doctors working
there to help him. ELLEN SIEGEL Nurse He started begging,
"Somebody give me a coat, please give me a coat. Somebody help
me." And so somebody gave him a white coat and so of course he was
the only person in the group that was of Semitic looking dark skin, and he was
picked out immediately as we started to walk. We didn't get very far.
We walked for about a minute and he was stopped. I saw him on his knees
begging and I turned around - we were told to keep walking - and the next
thing I heard was a shot from behind me and I didn't turn around and look
back. KEANE: At around 8 o'clock, 38 hours after
they'd first entered, the Phalangists left Sabra and Shatila. The first
Israeli soldiers to enter the camps were confronted with a scene of horror.
EMMANUEL ROSEN Journalist for Israeli Defence Force, 1982 In the camps
when we entered, people were dead or dying. No one was screaming, no one
was talking. They were all dead or about to be dead. It was very
clear to see that they were not shot to death, that they were tortured.
When I understood that these were the Phalange, the first reaction were these
people are killers. They're really the worst people I've ever met.
For me immediately you know you go back to pictures from the holocaust.
KEANE: In the rubble were children who'd been scalped, young men who'd
been castrated. NABIL AHMED I was hoping to find my family alive.
Then, when I start seeing the bodies in the streets, I accepted the fact then
that I'll be grateful to find their bodies. You see what happened, they
put them in a house, they killed them and they bulldozed the houses on them,
so we were digging the rubble to identify. So we pulled the hair of my
relative and that's when we realised that this is the spot where they are
there. KEANE: This was the house where Suad Surur had lain among
the bodies of her family. ROSEN: Most of the soldiers
that I knew they felt terrible about it, and they felt that this is the time
to disconnect all the connections with this Phalange, just go out of this
country, this Lebanon, and go back to being Israel defence forces.
KEANE: An American diplomat at the scene broke news of the slaughter to
his country's special ambassador. Ambassador Draper sent a furious
message to Ariel Sharon saying he was responsible for the area. MORRIS
DRAPER US Special Envoy to the Middle East, 1982 "You must stop the acts
of slaughter, they are horrifying. I have a representative in the
camp counting the bodies. You should be ashamed. The situation is
absolutely appalling. They're killing children! You have the field
completely under your control and are therefore responsible for that
area." KEANE: And you've had no doubt since then
or at that time that Ariel Sharon was responsible? DRAPER: No
doubt whatsoever. Well of course more Israelis have to share in that
responsibility but absolutely. KEANE: The Israeli government had
first denied there had been any Israeli army position in the area and rejected
any blame for what had happened at the camps. But in Israel and
throughout the world there was public and political condemnation. Ariel
Sharon was the target of bitter criticism in Israel's own parliament. He
vigorously defended himself against any suggestion of responsibility for the
massacre. Ariel Sharon speaking in 1982 Not for a moment did we imagine
that they would do what they did. They had received harsh and clear
warnings. Had we for one moment imagined that something like this would
happen we would never have let them into the camp. KEANE: But the
pressure inside Israel did not let up. Four hundred thousand people took
to the streets to demand a public inquiry, the biggest demonstration in the
history of the state. There was unease too in the army.
General YORAM YAIR Commander, Paratroop Brigade, 1982 Like always happened,
all the politicians are throwing the responsibility as fast and as far as they
can, and it happened so that suddenly we, the troops in West Beirut, were
blamed for what happened. KEANE: Eventually and against the
wishes of Ariel Sharon, the government set up a judicial commission of
inquiry. It was for the Middle East a unique inquiry. Dr RANAAN
GISSEN Israeli Prime Minister's Spokesman Show me another nation that when two
people.. you know.. Arabs kill Arabs or let's say two different people, it
wasn't that the Jews were involved in, then the country, because we were
there, we conducted.. no one forced us, we conducted our own investigation.
KEANE: Ariel Sharon faced detailed questioning by the Commission.
His lawyers argued he hadn't been negligent in failing to stop the massacre,
and no reasonable man could have foreseen the danger. So how well did
Ariel Sharon know Lebanon's culture of murder? After one visit in
February 1982 he said of the Lebanese "They're the kind of people who
kiss ladies' hands and they murder." Ariel Sharon knew of the
history of hatred between the Phalange and the Palestinians, and he knew that
Christian civilians had suffered savage slaughter at the hands of the PLO.
NADER: Of course they burnt all the houses, destroyed everything,
whatever they can kill, they can rob, they can rape, they have done this.
KEANE: Who was the enemy? Let's be specific about that.
FOUAD ABOU NADER Phalange Head of Operations, 1982 The Palestinians
were the enemy at the time, definitely the Palestinians and all the people who
were coming to help the Palestinians to fight back. KEANE: Many
in the Israeli ranks in Lebanon knew exactly what the Phalange felt about the
Palestinians. EMMANUEL ROSEN Journalist for Israeli Defence Force, 1982
Hatred is not enough to say how they treated the Muslims and the Palestinians
in Lebanon. The way they described what they're going to do to them when
they are going to control Lebanon, they use the terminology that I never heard
before. Terminology that maybe was common in Lebanon but not in Israel,
even in the most bitter days of terror attacks and everything that we had to
go through all these years. KEANE: In Beirut one Israeli officer
had a shocking request from a Phalangist. General YORAM YAIR Commander,
Paratroop Brigade, 1982 He say "Do me a favour, make sure to bring me
that much." I say what is it? He say "Listen, I
know that you will sooner or later go inside West Beirut. Promise me
that you will bring me that much Palestinian blood, I want to drink it."
KEANE: Just six weeks before Sabra and Shatila, Ariel Sharon
ordered his troops to take all steps to stop the Phalange abusing another
group, the Druse. But why, when he talked of the Lebanese as
'murderers', did he allow the Phalange into the camps? Dr RANAAN GISSEN
Israeli Prime Minister's spokesman Well you know we live in the Middle East so
we do not always have the choice of choosing our allies or our enemies.
We have to take them as they come. KEANE: Even if they're
butchers? GISSEN: No, I'm saying we had the belief, and I think
perhaps a misguided belief, we thought that after training them and after
going, that they will follow orders, and this is a disciplined army.
KEANE: But the Kahan Commission, the inquiry headed by the most senior
judge in Israel, said Ariel Sharon had "disregarded the danger of
acts of vengeance and bloodshed by the Phalangists against the population of
the refugee camps. He failed to take this danger into account when he
decided to have the Phalangists enter the camps." And he'd
failed to order "..appropriate measures for preventing or reducing
the danger of massacre as a condition for the Phalangist entry into the
camps." DOV WEISGLASS Lawyer for Ariel Sharon at Kahan Commission
I don't think that anyone disputes that the Commission has done a good faced,
honest and straight work of the collection of the facts. As much as the
conclusion which were drawn out of these facts, not all of them are accepted
by him. The conclusion that himself and the others had to foresee this
possibility is denied. KEANE: Ariel Sharon lost his job as
Defence Minister but stayed in the cabinet. He's never accepted the
finding of indirect responsibility. But Sabra and Shatila was a war
crime. The question never asked by the Kahan Commission was whether
there should be indictments. Let us ask that question first of the
Phalange. None has ever been arrested or charged in relation to what
happened in the camps. Some are now successful businessmen living in
Beirut. Fouad Abou Nader told us he was aware of Israeli accounts which
implicate him and other commanders in the plan to send men into camps.
He denies any part in the massacre. KEANE: Who did do the
killing? FOUAD ABOU NADER Phalange Head of Operations, 1982 I don't
want to comment about that. I told you there is a lot of question marks
on this issue and I'm not sure I can.. I have myself the real answers to this.
KEANE: Are you worried that this might ever become an issue for
war crimes, that somebody might pursue people in the Lebanese forces, pursue
you for example on the basis of what's been said by the Israelis for war
crimes? NADER: I have peace of mind on this issue. I don't
think I am concerned at all in this. I am not afraid at all of any such
kind of inquiry. KEANE: Do you feel angry then when you hear
yourself effectively being accused of war crimes? NADER: Oh yes,
oh yes I am very angry. KEANE: Are you a little worried as well
perhaps? NADER: No, not at all. Not at all. Not at
all. KEANE: But the man accused of leading the slaughter is still
living in East Beirut. His name is Elie Hobeika. Hobeika
eventually switched sides, abandoning the Israelis, offering his services to
the Syrians and becoming leader of the militia. Elie Hobeika's
reputation as a ruthless killer makes him a man still feared in Beirut.
We've asked him for an interview on a number of occasions and he's refused.
But he has now agreed to a meeting and I'm hoping to be able to record some of
our conversation. How did Elie Hobeika answer the charges against
him? Voice of ELIE HOBEIKA Phalange commander, 1982 I'm not a war
criminal. I don't regard myself as a war criminal. KEANE:
You're described as a ruthless, cold killer. HOBEIKA: Yes.
KEANE: Do you think that's all untrue, that description of you?
HOBEIKA: I did the war. I was a soldier. I fought at many
fronts. I survived. KEANE: You say that you are now a man
of peace. Can I just put to you the other scenario, that you are a mass
murderer who is lying to avoid being brought to justice. HOBEIKA:
Which justice? KEANE: International justice.
HOBEIKA: I am not afraid of international justice. KEANE:
But what about those whom the Kahan Commission said had indirect
responsibility, those accused of disregarding the danger to civilians and of
failing to ensure the proper protection of civilians in the areas under their
control? I understand that as a judge of a South African court you
don't want to get into labelling people in other countries as war criminals,
but in your assessment of command responsibility, isn't it reasonable to say
that if responsibility goes all the way to the top, to the person who gave the
orders, that potentially makes Ariel Sharon a war criminal. Judge
RICHARD GOLDSTONE Former Chief Prosecutor UN War Crime Tribunals, 1994-96 Well
it depends very much on the facts, but if the person who gave the command
knows, or should know on the facts available to him or her, that is a
situation where innocent civilians are going to be injured or killed, then
that person is as responsible, in fact in my book more responsible even than
the people who carry out the order. KEANE: One lawyer who was
part of an independent commission that investigated Sabra and Shatila argues
that Israel's then Defence Minister had clear legal responsibilities.
Professor RICHARD FALK International Law, Princeton University Sharon's
specific command responsibility arises from the fact that he was Minister of
Defence in touch with the field commanders, that he actually was present there
in Beirut, that he met with the Phalange leadership and it was he that gave
the directions and orders that resulted in the Phalange entering the camps in
September. KEANE: Professor Falk argues that Ariel Sharon's
failure to meet the responsibility to protect civilians from abuse and death
should have legal consequences. FALK: I think there is no
question in my mind that he is indictable for the kind of knowledge that he
either had or should have had. KEANE: So let me be absolutely
clear, you are in no doubt that Ariel Sharon is indictable as a war criminal.
FALK: No doubt whatsoever. DOV WEISGLASS Lawyer for Ariel
Sharon at Kahan Commission Never ever I heard that anyone even suggested that
this kind of.. let's call it a professional mistake, a professional military
mistake or a professional political mistake even be mentioned in the same
token with international crime or with war crime. In a way those people
who do say, unfortunately, abuse, I think, a very important value of the
international community which the intention and the need to punish war crimes.
But when you take the word 'war crimes' or 'punishment of war crimes' or
'international trial' and you try to apply it into this case, you see it's an
abuse of these important values and it's simply totally baseless.
KEANE: The legacy of Sabra and Shatila hasn't damaged the careers of the
central characters. Elie Hobeika became a minister for refugees in post
war Lebanon. General Amos Yuron, the Israeli Commander outside the
camps, is now Director General of Israel's Defence Ministry, and earlier this
year Ariel Sharon became Prime Minister of Israel. The massacre seemed
long forgotten when Mr Sharon arrived at the White House. GEORGE BUSH:
Welcome Mr Prime Minister. Glad you're here. SHARON: Thank
you. Dr RANAAN GISSEN Israeli Prime Minister's spokesman People who
were there, just because they were there, paid the full price for that.
KEANE: Did they? GISSEN: I think so. KEANE:
Ariel Sharon as Prime Minister, Amos Yuron who was Commander at Sabra and
Shatila is now Director General of the Defence Ministry. What kind of
price is that? GISSEN: Well we paid for something that they were
not directly responsible for, that they did not do. KEANE: The
question of legal justice is on the minds of some of those who survived the
massacre. Suad Surur was crippled for life and she lost six members of
her family including her father. SUAD: He is dead. How can
I claim justice for him when he is dead. I might be able to get justice
for the people killed in their own homes, but the people who did this crime
might also be dead by then. KEANE: If a country launches it's own
investigation, it's own commission, for example the Kahan Commission which is
based really as a moral investigation, is that enough? Can it be said to
have satisfied the requirements of justice? Judge RICHARD GOLDSTONE
Former Chief Prosecutor UN War Crime Tribunals, 1994-96 Well clearly justice
requires that criminals should be brought to book and if people, regardless of
who they are, are shown by an investigation to have been in breach of the law,
then clearly criminal prosecution should follow, and in the case of Sabra and
Shatila, clearly the Kahan Commission found that very serious crimes had been
committed and I have no doubt any decent person would regret the fact that not
a single criminal prosecution followed. KEANE: Ariel Sharon said
recently he regretted the tragedy of Sabra and Shatila, but asked if he would
apologise he replied "To apologise for what?" _______
If you want to comment on any of the issues raised in
tonight's programme you can visit our website at www.bbc.co.uk/panorama
CREDITS
Reporter Fergal Keane
Film Camera
Ian Kennedy
Colin Regal
Richard Atkinson
Sound Recordists
Nick Berry
VT Editor Boyd Nagle
Graphic Design
Kaye Huddy
Julie Tritton
Film Research
Eamonn Walsh
Production Team
Rosa Rudnicka
Ben Peachey
Production Manager Martha Estcourt
Unit Manager
Maria Ellis
Film Editor Bernard Lyall
Assistant Producer,
Israel Yossi Avishai
Associate Producer
Darren Kemp
Producer Aidan Laverty
Deputy Editors
Andrew Bell
Editor
Mike Robinson
15
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Transcribed by 1-Stop Express
Services, London W2 1JG Tel: 020 7724 7953 E-mail
1-stop@msn.com